Una is safe?

@AllUsers:

All my data lost - una made no backups although, hosted by una.io. Thats real bullshit!

    • Aie, why, what's the problem exactly?

      • Automatic erase after payment by credit card was unsuccesful. I wrote to support to clarify but seems it was not important enough

        • Trust level = 0!

          • It also shows me digitization has limits and will never replace offline processes 100%. I wish all the best to all users. For me una.io was a good experience but I won‘t recommendate it to anyone.

            • Yes, you are right for automatic processing. System understand that if you have not paid is that you do not want more. Point.

              But I suppose you make a monthly payment? How do you manually manage a multitude of subscriptions for such short periods?

              It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that you would have had the same consequence with any accommodation .... especially with very short pay periods ... You have no time to react in case of problem...

              It's probably not the ideal plan for something as important, but how else to do it?

              • I think that‘s not the point. Una offers a monthly plan so I can use that. The point is una must be safe. There is no protection for users.

                • Which plan did you get Yasin? All of the ones advertised on their hosting page come with regular backups.

                  • We have Una Cloud 8. alex t told me there was no backup made...😞

                    • I don't know why that would be. Backups are usually an automatic thing unless the job wasn't setup just yet. How long have you been on the plan?

                      • They should have a method to save your files.

                        And normally if the payment is not processed in the payment date, you should be warned and the account may be put to suspended, but not deleted???

                        • Just finished first month. There was a problem with recurring payment so system erased the subscription I was told by Alex T

                            • Hi, Yasin 

                              We are still investigating and I will update with more details, but the general situation looks like your subscription payment has been declined by the bank and the system sent 2 reminders, reattempting the charge 3 days later. That also failed, and the server was shut down, 5 days after the due date. Since we are allocating dedicated pay-per-hour cloud instances, we can't afford to run them beyond 5 days unpaid as of now. 

                              As for backups - automatic backups are created for an active server regularly, but if the server is wiped, same happens to its backups, as they're all part of one paid instance. We do have a courtesy pre-shutdown backup, which the system attempts to make before cancellation, but it's not guaranteed, as we are essentially copying your site to one of our own servers, which may be in different datacenter and depending on the size of your site it may time-out or fail to copy. That's what happened in this case.

                              I am very sorry about the outcome. We are looking at how we can prevent such situations from happening - reconfiguring the system to first shut-down after 3 failed payment attempts and schedule server wipe 5 days after that (10 days total) with more warnings. 

                              I will also message you directly to see what we can do to help to reconstruct what you've achieved with your site to date. 

                              • Hello Andrew, I do not trust you anymore. If this happens to me, then it can happen to anyone of the users. Anytime.

                                • I am very sorry about that Yasin - we should have made a better way of handling payment failure cancellations. I should point out that this is a case when the system worked as designed, and the pre-cancellation backups weren't meant to be a reliable failover mechanism, and in most cases, they are undesirable, as users actually mean to let the server to cancel when the payment isn't being made after repeated attempts. This is essentially signalling that the service is not wanted anymore, and there's not much we can do to prevent that. Additional time that it is allowed to run is complimentary, and we're limited in how long we can maintain it. 

                                  Even after we change the system, it will allow for the same period of unpaid activity and then a short period of suspended service - 10 days all up, but it is entirely up to the site operator to ensure they either update billing or backup the site to ensure the data is safe after the grace period. I hope this makes sense. 

                                  • That's not a good explanation. You do not have any permission to delete accounts. As Cem Bagdatli - Hekim.Net already stated suspend yes but delete no!

                                    • This is a sad event of course.

                                      The normal action is to suspend the account in a longer grace period before the files are deleted. 

                                      And sending notifications about the suspended event and more notifications before the files are deleted.

                                      Andrew isnt there any other method to undelete the files there? Before something else are written to the disks?
                                      What about the backup isnt it working?

                                      I believe UNA staff will help in every aspect to Yasin to reanimate his web application again.

                                      Yasin I hope your site was not live with community ... with the help of UNA staff you may recreate in a shorter time now you have the know how.



                                      • The know-how is not the problem. Site was already live with users and a lot of content. I paids a lot of money for integration apps etc.

                                        • Hello Yasin, I understand very well your disappointment and the loss of your work is something difficult to digest, but understand that it is an accident.

                                          I believe that one way or another is something we all knew.

                                          I've known Una Team for a long time, it's the first "incident" that I see.

                                          Everyone makes mistakes and no system is perfect from the start. The main thing is to improve things all the time. and that we can not go to Una team not to do it.

                                          Please accept the help offered by Andrew, you can see that he cares about your problem, do not be discouraged

                                          As Cem says, with experience you can do it again faster and better and in a week or two it will be a bad memory.

                                          I think you had a great project in your head, I sincerely hope that in a few days, you will find the strength and the courage to pursue it.

                                          • Yes there is a lesson from this incident to UNA staff.
                                            Better to let them help you Yasin. I also believe that they will do their best to recover your project.

                                            • Based on the event time-line and set process, I think no one is at fault. Also this doesn't seem human error event e.g. Una staff deleted by accident. I have lost the Website setup / data on AWS 2 times and 1 time with other service provider so far, but when I read their agreement/process, then I realize that it was my mistake, as it was my responsibility to keep the backup or select another plan, which does provide the backup option, with additional price. 

                                              What I think is, what Una can do to improvise the process is to back up the Data to their own servers, in case the payment is failed or the account is at fault (because sometimes people forget about expired credit cards or other issues or some family obligations or something else and in that event, 10 days are not sufficient to act / decide / respond). When customer comes back, they may reinstate the account data (with penalty / charge / rental depending on how many days they hold the data or keep the refundable deposit, which can be used in such event, so they have enough time to cover the charges or storage). 

                                              There is saying which says:  "Whatever happened, was for the best. Whatever is happening, is for the best. whatever is meant to happen is for the best. Do not repent the past. Do not worry for the future. The present goes on. You keep working towards your goal and you shall succeed!"

                                              What I mean to say is, imagine if this would have happened when you have had 10000's of accounts down the line? This event has prevented that loss, not just for you but for all of us. And no matter whether you were using UNA or AWS or any Other service, this would have happened there too and I'm an example of this with AWS as well as other small service provider. 


                                              • "Una offers a monthly plan so I can use that. The point is una must be safe. There is no protection for users."

                                                I have to disagree on that one...


                                                "Regular Backups" are for when in use of service. If expiration and no payment done, hosting providers legally have the rights to wipe out, their hardware their property. Its individuals duty to backup and store at home, office, or another server... most control panels such as cPanel, Plesk, Virtualmin already have this feature.


                                                You want safe and protection (medical, military, government, etc)... don't depends on AWS, Dropbox, UNA and the like.


                                                I have experienced 9 years of using Shared Servers, Virtual Private Servers & Dedicated Servers... it is STILL our job to make backups, not UNA nor hosting provider.



                                                Why I don't trust Amazon's AWS. Few examples...

                                                https://gizmodo.com/security-hell-private-medical-data-of-over-1-5-million-1731548110

                                                https://www.techrepublic.com/article/leaked-fedex-customer-data-was-stored-on-amazon-s3-server-with-no-password/

                                                https://www.zdnet.com/article/nsa-leak-inscom-exposes-red-disk-intelligence-system/


                                                • Yes, true, but you do how a backup from Una Cloud, you have to see if there is this possibility, I'm not sure, I'd like to know. I would tend to think no ...

                                                  • I understand you are protecting your ideas, your basis. But fact is this incident happened, and can happen anytime to anyone. I will leave una and waiting for my refunds. Wish you all the best!

                                                    • Whatever one may say, if you have the virus, it will urge you to come back, if you do not have it, if you give up now, then you would have abandoned anyway later. Good luck Yasin.

                                                      • Maybe I am not reading this right but you created a post called 'Una is safe?' but yet, reading this post it seems to me that you are upset that your site was closed because your subscription payment declined, you were notified twice, and there was an attempt get the funds again 3 days later which also declined...

                                                        Did I ready this right? How would this have anything to do with UNA being safe or not? I am not trying to give you a hard time here but,  I would have to say that the best way for anyone to prevent this from happening is to make sure funds are available for recurring payments they have. Even if they bump the server/plan decommission time to 10 days and they send 1 additional warning (3 in total) and try getting the funds a 3rd time (3 in total) and your payment still declined, would you be OK with that? Some banks in the US charge $35 overdraft fees for declined payments. If you hosting plan is $50/month and they attempt to charge your 3 times, the overdraft fees would be $105.00 and you would still owe the $50. So in total $155.00 

                                                         This really applies to anything in the world today. If you don't pay your car note, they come get it. Don't pay the electric bill, they shut it off, etc.

                                                        As stated above, it is not the job of any hosting company (unless its specifically stated or it's included in their plan) for them to maintain and ensure backups are being performed. Nor is any hosting company going to continue paying for 'space' or a server that is not being paid for by the customer who agreed to. 

                                                        Again, I am not trying to bash anyone here, just trying to think logically about this. 


                                                        So I have 1 question. How is not paying for something you should have (your subscription) become an 'incident'?

                                                        • Hey Yasin -  we are really sorry that you lost your site, and we are really sorry to see you go. It is our passion to help our community grow their communities and whatever the reasons we understand how annoying it must be to see your hard work disappear. So going back to  Andrew Boon 's  offer - we love people like you around here, with a bit of passion, inspiration and tenacity, we really don't want to lose you!   We are a small community of passionate developers, all working with the same tools, we really appreciated your contribution to the community, and your passion for your project - so if there is anything else that we can do to support you to get back into the game, we are very keen to help.

                                                          • This is certainly a PR nightmare for Boonex and UNA; especially with social media and how this can spread around the net in minutes.  This could hurt the bottom line.  The user said they wrote to Boonex to clarify.  OK Andrew, how often is someone commanding a support line; checking emails?  Is there a telephone number to reach someone?  My clients can both email and telephone me when they have issues.  10 days and bam you are gone?  Not good.  Andrew, you could have suspended the site, then you could have done an off server backup and kept that backup for 30 days before erasing the backup.  You could have sent a letter to the user as well before just deleting their content.  There are legitmate things that can cause a delay in communications; you have to allow for them.  Yes Andrew, you need to sit down with your team and get this mess straigten out ASAP.  And figure out someway to make the user happy before they start telling everyone on the net.  Offer a couple of months of free hosting perhaps.  Something.  Losing all the work, all the member contact info, all member content; that is a lot to lose and I can certainly understand the bad will Yasin  has now for UNA.

                                                            • Yasin, What you need to do is to put up a page so that members logging in can see a notice that a server crash; white lies are good, resulted in the lost of the site and you are asking for them to send you an email so you can notifiy them when you can get the site back up and running.  Don't just walk away from all that work, you might can salvage your member list.  Take advantage of Andrew's offer for help in getting your site back on line.

                                                              • It is unfortunate indeed. Yet, note that:

                                                                - The billing system sent notifications about failed payments and attempted 2 additional billings, 2 and 3 days apart.

                                                                - The first contact on the issue was made only after the site went down, at which point we couldn't do anything.

                                                                - The first reply to the issue from us was 6 hours after the first report. 

                                                                - Off-server backups are being made, but this one has failed (timed out). We have very limited information on why it happened exactly, but we are increasing time-out limits and we may limit new deployments to the same datacenter where we have off-server backup instances.  

                                                                - We have attempted to negotiate and help the user to rebuild the site.

                                                                • I have also instructed the team to issue refunds of all payments made to us by the member, regardless of their further decisions. 

                                                                  • As for PR nightmare, well... it should make us stronger and more mindful in the future, so come what may. 

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